Adam Mitchell [00:00:00]:
Hello, everyone. I wanna welcome you back to this episode of Shugyo. And today, I have a very special guest, Joichi Hirao Sensei. And, I wanna first just thank you, Joichi Sensei, for taking the time. We just spent an hour, working together and training, and, to be able to even offer more of your time to share your story, with both myself and our community who listen to this podcast and watch this channel. I just wanna share my gratitude with you. So thank you for being here.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:00:36]:
Thank you very much for inviting me.
Adam Mitchell [00:00:38]:
Joichi Sensei, I'd like to first of all, we've there's quite a bit to talk about here. Because as you know, Kosen judo is gonna is the topic of our conversation. You have a very unique story and a very interesting story coming up as a young man in judo, literally in your family. And before we get into some of the deep conversation about around Kosen Judo, can you go into a bit about your personal history, and what led you to where you are as a judo cop?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:01:15]:
Yes. Sure. I started judo, when I was 6 years old in this dojo. My grandfather invited a sensei from Kyoto police. His name is Yoji Kurimura. Now he's 8 dan. 8 dan. Then, he's 91 years old.
Adam Mitchell [00:01:50]:
Wow.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:01:51]:
Now he's not teaching because too old. He retires, for teaching 4 years ago. Before that, he he still did the randori. I know he still do like hitori uchikomi, like around uchikomi practice and push up. He's very strong, because he's from Busen. You know Busen?
Adam Mitchell [00:02:21]:
I do, but could you explain it for the listeners who don't?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:02:25]:
Mhmm. Okay. Busen, was, there was a school, martial arts school in Kyoto. That was a very big organization of Japanese budo, not just judo. They had to clarify, kendo, sumo. I think, they had almost all martial arts in Japan. But after, World 2nd World, So we are banned. So now there's no organization.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:03:12]:
But before, my sensei, he trained, he trained there before. So we don't have, not so much people like this. I think, and, for Judo, Judo wise, what's different from, his judo has more newaza. He teaches newaza has with good osae komi.
Adam Mitchell [00:03:49]:
Was that because of the style that was taught at, Busen?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:03:53]:
Yes. Style of Busen is more, like, intense. I heard what defines, from Kodokan. Kodokan has more, like, they have a good technique with a good explanation. But Busen people, more like, Shugyo, your podcast. Like, practice, practice, practice. Very intense.
Adam Mitchell [00:04:28]:
Alright.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:04:28]:
Yeah. Then so I learned judo, from, Kurimura sensei when I was 15 years old. After that, I go to Kyoto High School. Then I trained there 3 years. Then after that, I go to Chiyo University. That's, Okano. Isao Okano. He's a gold medalist in the Tokyo Olympics before.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:05:02]:
1st of Tokyo Olympics. He was not there, but he is my senpai. After that, I, go to company judo team. My coach was Hidehiko Yoshida Sensei. I I've been there for 4 years. Then after that, I went to Canada for national team for a sparring partner of Antoine Barra Fortier, who was a bronze medal in, London Olympics in minus 81 category. I was there for, I was in Canada for 5 years, then I I came back to Japan to my dojo. Then I'm teaching, judo in my dojo, and I'm doing, gatame kosen judo online too.
Adam Mitchell [00:06:05]:
But where in that experience, Juichi Sensei, would you say you were able to get the most influence for what your judo is like now? Among those different teachers and all those different influences, is it sort of a a mixture of all of them? Or are there particular learning experiences where you can look back and say, that's what I wanna be a continuation of? Like, what what would you say about that?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:06:33]:
I think Kurimura sensei because, he taught me judo, like, almost 10 years. Even my judo, I'm very good for newasa. Tachaza to newasa. Tradition. Not just newasa. Like, tachaza to newasa. This one came from, Kurimura Sensei. When, I practice with Sensei, if I don't go to Newaza after throwing, he's very angry.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:07:09]:
He hit me with, shinai.
Adam Mitchell [00:07:11]:
So people understand that tachiwasa that, since he's referencing is, like, standing techniques, and the newasa are the ground techniques. But please go ahead.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:07:21]:
Yeah. I think this one also very, specific for Busen Judo. So they don't care Tachiwaza or Newaza. Always, they have to continue their teaching. They were teaching like this.
Adam Mitchell [00:07:42]:
I was interested to hear when as you were growing, and and then you were able to have that reference of judo not only from your father and not only from these incredible instructors, but then you end up in Canada. And you see judo in Canada, which is, I would imagine is a very big trajectory of the sport of judo over many generations on the other side of the world. Many influences, many changes, many adaptations. And you go from it's I find it really fascinating that you go from a place like the influence of the Busen style of judo to now you're in Canada studying and training as a sparring partner with, an Olympic medalist. What were the major differences that you witnessed, and maybe some of the challenges that you faced in that change?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:08:40]:
Yeah. Good question. For Olympic judo, there's not so much difference between, Japan Japanese training and Canadian training because it's they compete the same Olympic judo style. But Canadian, has good technique. I mean, they can do, like, all technique very good, but Japanese very specific. Just they have 2 or 3 techniques. Very good. Very specific.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:09:22]:
Yeah. Very specific, very good technique. That's what I feel. For example, someone some Japanese judoka has a good seoi nage. But this guy say he can do Uchimata. Actually, they can do, but I, he means he cannot have very good Uchimata. But Canadians say, like, they can do all techniques. That's very, I mean, very different.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:10:00]:
Also, we have a lot of Uchikomi Japanese. Canadian, they don't do so much. They do, like, almost all technique. Like, they change their door, like, once a month and once a month. But Japanese just do, uchikomi. Uchikomi is repetition. Like, 10 minutes, uchikomi, then after that, randori. Like, Canadians, they have doors, like, 1 hour.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:10:36]:
1 hour, they change. Then after that, they do randori. That's very different from our culture. Our style is more shugyo, like fight by ourselves. Canadian and foreigner, I feel like coach or sensei, they decide everything, what do they do, what do they practice.
Adam Mitchell [00:11:06]:
So when you say that they you fight by yourself, meaning, and the there's more of a self discipline in the training, would you say more, there's more of a focus on your own, your own personal expansion and becoming better as a judoka versus the group?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:11:27]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Adam Mitchell [00:11:28]:
Is that is that what I'm hearing?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:11:30]:
Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Like, always that's very Japanese. Like, always, like, pro problem is, problem is in our mind. Understand? Yeah. Yeah.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:11:51]:
But but but I understand the Canadian, it's more judo is a sports.
Adam Mitchell [00:11:57]:
Is it yeah. I understand.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:11:59]:
They have technical coach, like mentor trainer, like this. But Japan is now changing, so we're becoming like this, more like Canadian or American style.
Adam Mitchell [00:12:10]:
So you're saying it's more for the Japanese, it's very much a mental thing. It's very much a, an internal development thing where you're fighting you're you're pushing your character forward. Where in the West and in Canada, it was more a sport. It was a competition, and that's it.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:12:29]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
Adam Mitchell [00:12:31]:
So I also understand you have been studying Brazilian jiu jitsu for some time as well. Is that correct?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:12:39]:
Yes. Yes.
Adam Mitchell [00:12:41]:
Yeah. What are some of the, differences, and what made you wanna learn that? Was it just to gain more tactic and understanding of what the Brazilian jujitsu, student is more capable of and just to sort of expand your own skill set? Or was there something about Brazilian jiu jitsu that that appealed to you?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:13:04]:
Actually, they they are very good on the ground. Many people ask, me what difference, from Judo, BJJ, and Kosen Judo. I think just a rule set. But, like, for example, Judo has more tachibada standing technique, like 80% 80% standing, then 20% on the ground. BJJ is opposite. So that's why, they could develop good technique on the ground. So I think Kosen Judeau is, very bitter win. But we don't have, like, wrist lock, knee lock, like, leg, leg lock.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:14:02]:
We don't win by point. That's why technique is very different. So BJJ is good for BJJ rules. Judo is very good for Judo rules. Kosen judo is good for Kosen judo
Adam Mitchell [00:14:19]:
I don't wanna skip over something here. You had mentioned right when we started that the dojo behind you, you started in as a small child. And Yes. I wanna I wanna stop for a moment, and I'm wondering if you can say a little bit about the dojo behind you. It's just fascinating that here you are, an instructor, a champion, someone who's trained with Olympic medalists and has trained all over the world and competed all over the world, has such a rich history. And you're talking to us from the dojo that you did your first judo class in. It's just really amazing. Tell us a little bit about that dojo.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:15:01]:
Yeah. My dojo. Yeah. Yeah. My dojo, like, my grandfather built it when I was 6 years old. He he he he invited Kurimura Sensei. Then we started. So this year is, it's been 30, 30 year, like, 30 year anniversary for for us.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:15:28]:
Like, this week, one student from here, he gonna fight for world junior championship. Wow. Yeah. In Tajikistan. He's the 1st, competitor for World Champion World Championship from this dojo.
Adam Mitchell [00:15:53]:
That's exciting.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:15:54]:
Very, very exciting. Yeah. So we we have, we are, he's 18 years older than me. So when he was a kid, so, you know, I trained him like, I beat him. Then now, you know, he's very strong. I'm very happy. Yes.
Adam Mitchell [00:16:18]:
That's wonderful. And what's his name? So we can look for him and support him.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:16:24]:
Haru Akita.
Adam Mitchell [00:16:26]:
Let's change the conversation a bit over to, Kosen Judo and understanding your growth, as a judoka, your appeal and influence from the Busen School and style of judo. Can we can you explain to us a little bit about Kosen Judo? And understanding that it's like, it's like school or like university, but it's a different rule set even though it's still judo. Here in the United States, I've spoke with quite a few people about it, and they they think it's a completely different style of judo. And I have to correct that and say, no. It's just a different set of rules. But there is a difference. There is and and you've alluded to it quite a bit. There is a difference in the the training style, more shugyo.
Adam Mitchell [00:17:17]:
There's a different, there's a difference different emphasis on newasa. So could you expand on this and help us to understand better what Kosen, truly is?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:17:30]:
Okay. Many people, yeah, ask me ask me. No. Yeah. I think they may, many people misunderstand. I think, because of Olympic user, now we cannot, touch the leg. That's why, we make misunderstanding. I think they think, Kosen Judo is, like, different from, Kodokan Judo style.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:18:06]:
But, actually, it could be kosen no. No. No. It could be Kodokan Judo technique. Also, like like judo. Originally, kosen judo is just rule sets for university or the school system before the second war. Also, Kosenjudo is just a team tournament. 15 people versus 15 people.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:18:37]:
So a person who won a person who wins can go up. But, person winner has to get Ippon. Wazari is a hikibake draw. Finish. But if the person who won with Ippon, so he can go up. He can fight to second person.
Adam Mitchell [00:19:03]:
Mhmm.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:19:03]:
If person can win can won with Ippon, then he can, you know if if he if he's very strong, he can beat all people with, by one person. Originally, Kosen Jizo means, not individual fight, a team team fight. And Luz said, yeah, they can grab the leg and no mate. And when they go out of the mat, they can pull the referee referee can pull them. Is 20 seconds. Yeah. All all the school judo, when, they started judo, was almost same rule as the kosen judo I I'm talking now. So university students, they don't have time to train so much.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:20:10]:
That's why they want, they focus on newaza. So Neuwaza, or the technique on the ground, is very easy to improve than standing technique. Because standing technique, we need a physical, a good timing, so we have to train, over and over. But, Neuazah, so we, not so much. No. Still, it's difficult, but easier to to improve.
Adam Mitchell [00:20:47]:
Easier to improve, but in terms of time, for the competition, it it's so much longer and so much it would seem, and I'm interested to hear your opinion on the Kodokan rules versus the Kosen rules. Quite a long time in the match for Kosen versus a Kodokan judo match.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:21:12]:
Yeah. Sure. Sure. It's team to now they call Nanate Judo. Yep. Semu University Judo. Now they, they don't use Kosen Judo. So it's team fight.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:21:26]:
They have role. So this person could, is role for hikiwake draw. So 8 minutes. 8 minutes, they just pull and stay or close guard or stay. So time is long, but they can make a strategy. So they have a role like this person, hikiwake this person for winning, to beat beat, like, somebody.
Adam Mitchell [00:21:59]:
I'm curious if you could walk us through an average class at your dojo.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:22:04]:
My, average class. So I have a standing I have a judo class and a newaza class. When we when we do randori, we use post and judo rule. It means they just can get point with kata newaza, like Osae komi and submissions. It's very good for Olympic judo too. Normally, they focus on just Tachiwaza, but, of course, they train newaza, but just newaza. Yes. Kosen judo is good training for Olympic judo too.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:22:55]:
Like, I mean, lure.
Adam Mitchell [00:22:57]:
In a average in a regular class in newaza, you start with a warm up. How much sparring is in an average class versus how much technique do you work on? Maybe one technique or a series of 5 techniques? How do you how have you found the the the best strategy to teach students so that they can become skilled?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:23:24]:
Normally, my class, like, 30 minutes, was gymnastics. Gymnastics, like, masquerading, like climbing the rope, and new other exercise, like shibori. You know shibori? Yeah. Shibori ebi, yaku ebi, like this, and Ashimawashi, like, rotating the legs. Like, mostly, I think, for new ones are very important is abs. We we we shouldn't put their head on the ground. Like, we I mean, we don't make flat our body.
Adam Mitchell [00:24:06]:
Yeah. So like shrimp. Like, ebi so you're referencing, you know, shrimp walk and kind of moving on the ground and then reverse shrimping, going one direction with the feet first and then with the head first. But turning the body and really pumping the abs and getting that flexibility and range in the spine for a warm up. Yeah.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:24:25]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think abs is very important Also, for touch other 2 abs is very important to to protect your body and head. So yeah. When we, do mass creation, so I'm focusing apps. After that, we do dore, like, 45 seconds. I change it, like, 2 weeks each. Now we train, like, kansetsu waza from kuzurekesagatame and munegatame.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:25:02]:
Like this. So I change each time, but I'm focusing on osaikomi more. So osae komi osea komi technique. Yeah. Pinning. So we stop him. Stop them. Then we can do charge and some missions.
Adam Mitchell [00:25:22]:
What would you recommend 1 or 2 exercises be? What are some of the most important exercises for someone who either wants to get started and begin newaza, whether that be through Brazilian jiu jitsu or judo, or they just wanna get good on the ground or just get a basic understanding of ground movement. What would be those most important exercises that you'd recommend?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:25:50]:
I think, to, understand also economy is very important. That's a faster step. Like, I
Adam Mitchell [00:25:58]:
How to hold someone down. The pinning techniques. Yeah.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:26:03]:
This one is very, special for us. I think much, much better than BJJ. They they have a good idea of submission to roll bot to use a body on the ground. But, we have very good training. That's our special. So they should, like beginner and should learn this, for the beginning.
Adam Mitchell [00:26:34]:
Depending techniques. And very interesting. So, Jioichi Sensei, the the Kosen Judo, you you mentioned the your teaching at your dojo, you're teaching the Kosen rules in your newasa class, and you're also working with students like myself through your program, Gatame Kosen Judo. And you've been working with students in different parts of the world, and not just at your dojo, which I wanna talk a little bit about. Again, I wanna I wanna kinda loop back to your dojo, and talk about Otsu and where it is and if someone wanted to come visit your dojo when in Japan, if they could. And but we'll talk about that in a second. Tell us a little bit about the program that you're offering, Gataime, Kosa, and Judo. And, it's pretty exciting what you're doing, and, tell us a little bit about it.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:27:34]:
Okay. So first yeah. I I started, Black Belt curriculum 3 months ago. Yes. So they can run Kosen judo, our gatame online style. So why I started this? So we don't wanna forget, like, old school techniques, like, kibisugaieshi, Kuchiki Daoshi, like, kind of this technique. Now Olympic judo, they don't do. And my generation, like, little bit younger than my generation, they can't teach the technique.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:28:21]:
I think, we will forget, this kind of technique. I'm very sad. That's why I started, our Gatame Kosen Judo.
Adam Mitchell [00:28:34]:
What I'm hearing is that you're it's partly to preserve old school and traditional judo.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:28:41]:
Also, I want to fix misunderstanding of Kosen Judo. Our curriculum has a knowledge test too to understand the history of Kosen judo. So Kosen judo is not the style. Kosen judo is just rule set in all the school or all the university, system. So I want to fix fix, their misunderstanding for what what they are thinking of Kosenjudo.
Adam Mitchell [00:29:19]:
What are some of the goals that you have, with in in terms of Gataime Kosen Judo's in terms of the program, is it developing training groups, like like our training group? Is it to develop individual competitive students? What would you if we were to maybe, fast forward 2 years from today, what does Gatame Kosen Judo look like to you when it's successful?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:29:51]:
I think, I want, them to get black belt, Kosenjudo black belt first. Then after that, we have 2 more, curriculum to become qualified Dojo. So I want to have, Dojo someone who can teach, like, our style in the world. This one is my, like, a year or 2 years objective.
Adam Mitchell [00:30:24]:
When someone goes to Gatame Kosen Judo and they join, when they go in, into the website, what can they expect to see?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:30:36]:
The our curriculum is, I recommend to Dojo instructors who want to, teach kosenjudo. They can get, like, almost 100 techniques to get to get black belt. Also, just not for for them. So it's for students. So my video has details and a very short video. I think, each video is 1 minute or 2 minutes. I think longer ones, less than 3 minutes. So easy to understand? And I just, make just 3 important points for each, techniques.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:31:33]:
For it means for instructors easy to teach, easy to remember. That's why I made the very simple explanation and the short video.
Adam Mitchell [00:31:48]:
Yeah. I found so the the v what you can expect are the videos are professional. They're not just shot with a camera. They're nicely done videos, and there's very clear instruction. And there's a lot there's a lot of videos.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:32:04]:
You have
Adam Mitchell [00:32:05]:
a lot of videos there. Yep. But but also live classes too. And also someone students can have the ability to have you review their videos. Is that correct?
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:32:17]:
Yes. They review their video. Yes.
Adam Mitchell [00:32:20]:
Yes. This is a really great opportunity for, them, and I would encourage martial arts school owners out there, like just like you referenced, other instructors to, partner up with Gautamik Hosenjudo and to seek you out and to, you know, like I've done, you know, look to you for some leadership in this because it will not only help your judo, but it will also help, your your school, and it'll help your curriculum. And it's, it's very authentic, and it's it's incredible, incredible teaching that you offer to Ichi Sensei. So I'm very as I said at the beginning, I can't I can't be thankful enough for, for you making this available to us.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:33:03]:
Thank you very much.
Adam Mitchell [00:33:04]:
And, once again, I just wanna thank you for taking your time today and, and and sharing with us the incredible story that you have and the incredible work that you're doing. So thank you very much.
Joichi Hirao Sensei [00:33:14]:
Thank you very much again. Thank you, Adam Sese.
